The Future...

This last weekend the owner of the Jazz, Larry H. Miller, passed away. I am a big Jazz fan and watched the game the day after where they honored him. There were many video clips of his life shown before and during the game. A quote that was very important to him stuck with me and I would like to see what you all think of it. He was a big supporter of Education and did many things to help SLC Community College and gave many educational scholarships. In one of the banquets for education that he spoke at he read this quote as one of his firm beliefs: "Children are the messengers we send to a time we'll never see; what messages are we sending with them?" I had never heard this before and I thought it was quite profound. I am wondering what you all think of this quote and how it pertains to education today? Whether it be elementary or the higher education we're obtaining now. How should education work so that we can achieve greater things in the future?

"Glen" The Sex Kitten

If you weren't in class today while we were discussing Pygmalion here's something to chew on.

You probably recall that there is a character in the story named Gwen. The husband in this story has an affair with Gwen and eventually they ended up married. Gwen has a speech impediment and basically replaces all the "L"s with "W"s. If you look at the original paper that was written, the name of Gwen's character was Fritzie. Is there a reason for the change in name but not the change in speech impediment? Is Gwen really supposed to be Glen?

Discuss.

response to "The Silken Tent"

Is it to lame to wonder who is being referred to in the first line?  is the writer describing "she" or the silken tent?  upon reading aloud it is imagined that "she" is the described.  

the flow of this poem is so sultry, as waves on the beach at sunset.  people all around stop to watch in silence.  the author is definately captivating his audience.  

reading aloud brings each reader, each imagination, a different experience.  the words can be descriptive yet vague and sensible and senseless.  as reading, deeper and deeper falling in the words and the rhyme.  swaying back and forth emotionally, as though to feel the same way as the writer must have felt at that tie in that moment. 

line 6 describes the central cedar pole.  this can be thought of as the "rock" or "anchor" that holds the tent in its place or the soft touch and beautiful aroma that is encompassed by the surrounding tent, or woman.  

to think deeper, and to read aloud again.  this just might bring a heightened sense of understanding in such readings.

Defining Any Particular Definitive Response

From initial glance at Picasso's painting I would think there wasn't any sexual energy in it. What's seems exceptionally curious to me is the pure amount of anything that can be claimed as being in that picture. For example, if I start talking about how war is an intricate part of the painting, do you see war elements within it? Perhaps sadness? Happiness? Aging? Youth? Maybe this dynamic doesn't apply to you, but it certainly does to me. I could see anything that I wanted to see in a painting like this. If sexuality is in fact meant to be in the painting, it's probably lesbianism due to the substantial difference between the women and her reflection. Honestly though, where do I get off making any statement like that? I therefore conclude that Picasso's art is a pure masterpiece do to the fact that I can literally see anything I choose to within it.

I felt kind of ripped off reading the poems in direct relation to the painting. It's sad, but unfortunately true. I like finding my own perspective or insight about peaces of art, whether it be a painting or a poem. I found it increasingly agitating to have another's perspective on work that is not their own in an environment that I felt forced to look at them in conjunction with each other within.

From my perspective, any work of art has power only in that which I learn about myself from it. I cannot definitively say that the creator of the work is any particular way of being or has any unusual approach, for I am not the creator. The only thing that I have any true knowledge of is myself. I suppose I subscribe to a very Descartes-es philosophy in that respect.

The poem alone might lose a degree of dignity from itself were the presence of the painting to be removed, but perhaps I would have gotten more from it if I did not feel as if I'm was confined to the restrictions of it's relationship with the painting. Then again, I could very well be missing a certain level of creativity between the poem and the painting that has a whole new form of creativity within it. Unfortunately, if that is the case, I will be resigning myself from this particular art form because it holds no particular value to me. Yet, I hold it to be still possible for such a work to inspire on a level that would change my current state of mind on the matter.

Something That Crossed my Mind...

As I have been following and reading the blog entries people have made, a question has been brought to the forefront of my mind. Many of the posts concentrate on compassion, empathy, and the like emotions.

I have always believed that it doesn't matter why someone is empathetic, compassionate, or does a good deed; what matters is they act in that way and someone is postively impacted. However, do we do good things because they are just that, good? Or do we do good things because we want to feel good about ourselves?

Is it possible that we have a selfish motivation in selfless acts?

I Disagree

"Children who did not specially want it to happen, skating
On a pond at the edge of the wood:
They never forgot
That even the dreadful martyrdom must run its course"

-W.H. Auden, Musee des Boux Arts

I have been reading this passage repeatedly, trying to get a greater grasp and find a deeper meaning. When I think of children skating on a pond by the forest, I don't see deep, complex, social awareness happening; I see just the opposite. Laughter, carelessness, innocence, even euphoria. In many cases (though not nearly all), children are immune to the trappings and stresses of adulthood, and consequently, the world. Anyone have any thoughts on this?

Another line stuck out to me as well:
"About suffering they were never wrong,
The Old Masters: how well they understood
Its human position; how it takes place"

In our world, tyranny, oppression, and cruelty abound. I even heard somewhere that their are more conflicts occuring right now than at any other point in history. However, I see a noticeable change among the peoples of our time. These behaviors are no longer seen in the same light as days gone by. I do not mean to sound naive; I fought in Iraq and have a pretty good idea of the worst man is capable of. But I look at the international pressure bestowed on the middle east process, Northern Ireland, Rwanda, Darfur, and the famine currently racking Zimbabwe. Industrialized countries care, and I would bet that it is not merely over a desire for their resources. I would argue that as a generality, human beings have grown largely more humanitarian.

Concerning the stated line in the poem, I would have to disagree, and this ties in to what I wrote above. I do not think the masters of slaves understood the suffering inherent in slavery, or that Hitler completely understood the suffering of those in the concentration camps. I do not believe that Alexander the Great understood the suffering his Army imposed on all those conquered peoples, and I'm quite convinced that Oliver Cromwell did not understand the suffering of the Catholics in Ireland as a virtual genocide took place. Sure, all these people issued the orders, actively participated in, and saw the consequences. But I do not think anyone can fully understand how the human position takes place, because if they had, they would not have pursued the course they did.

And in This Corner...

I've really enjoyed this discussion. I thought your comments on Tuesday were excellent, and they have led to equally-thoughtful posts.

One thing that I have been thinking about, and it is something you (Amber and Katelin in particular) have been alluding to, is that just as human suffering often goes unseen by others, it is also true that human love or human charity "must run its course / Anyhow in a corner, some untidy spot." In fact, one could argue that acts of love and kindness are often most sincere when they do take place "in a corner," where perhaps no one ever knows about them except for the person(s) being helped and, of course, the one trying to alleviate suffering. It isn't easy to turn the ship around or park the plow when no one is looking over our shoulder.

In my view, one of the truest--and most condemning--lines of the poem is "But for him it was not an important failure." The greatest tragedy of human suffering, apart from the suffering itself, is that we often don't care about it unless we perceive it as directly affecting us. In another of his poems, perhaps his greatest poem ("September 1, 1939"), Auden writes, "We must love one another or die." In so many ways that is absolutely true.

I will be back to post some writing prompts for next week. Look for those late tomorrow morning.

-D

Oops, minor error adjustments :)

Sorry, I was typing fast and didn't proof read for typos.
Here are some fixed:
peop0le *people
. for *. For
sdy *sky

Just 10 minutes of your time please?...

Hey! I really liked what you said Katelin! I agree, if a person takes a second to do a simple act of kindness; listen to someone vent for example--it would make both parties feel much better. That is why I think that in the imaginative world we were talking about in class--where if each person took some time out of their day to stop what they had going on to help someone suffering--it would in fact not have the entire world depressed all the time. It would be almost the exact opposite. I mean, yes, there would be some depressed peop0le during the time of the trial, but with the help of someone else bearing the burden, leaning on each other for support, wouldn't it be easier to get through together? That is what would keep joy prevalent. for example, in "Musee des Boux Arts", leke we discussed yesterday, the ploughman needs to work, yes, but if he had taken that day off, or just a few hours off to go save a boy's life who had just fallen from the sdy, Icarus, it could've changed his life forever. He and Icarus would definitely have remembered that act of kindness 10 years later rather than remembering another day at work. The impact of helping someone else out, outshines passive behavior and regrets any gloomy day.

Suffering and Selfishness

Since class on Tuesday I have been thinking a lot about our discussion on "Musee des Beaux Arts" and how one of the things that Auden is trying to communicate to the reader is that people are too busy to notice if someone is suffering around them. I think that this is true. Everyone needs to go along with their lives. Like we pointed out in class, if we stop to help every single person who is suffering nothing would get done. Everyone would always suffer and we wouldn't progress in our lives. We would pretty much just be stuck in a sad depressing world. During this discussion in class I was thinking of another meaning that Auden could've had in his poem. I'm sure that there are several different ways to interpret it, and I thought that maybe Auden was also trying to say that people are just plain selfish, and that we need to take the time to at least help one person out. I don't know, it just seems that the world we live in now is based on an individual's selfishness. I kind of look at it from a corporate point of view. There are some people who will do anything to get a higher paying job, or have a position with more power. I just seem to hear more stories of that nature than anything else, but I don't believe that every single person is like that. There are tons of good people around. But there are many people who are so busy and engulfed in themselves and their goals that it is so easy for them to ignore others and possibly hurt them intentionally or unintentionally. It's not like you need to stop and help every single person you notice suffering, but wouldn't you find life to be more fulfilling knowing that you took the time to stop and help at least one person? An act of kindness could go a long way and mean so much to that one person. I don't know this idea just kind of hit me cause I recently had a talk with my friend, and he is going through a really tough time. I didn't do much but cry with him and listen to him vent. He told me the next day that it meant a lot to him that I sacrificed some of my time to sit and listen, and I felt better knowing that I actually helped him.

Anyway, those are just my random thoughts on the discussion...

Paintings Response

I posted earlier about the trouble I have with understanding poetry. Thanks for your ideas Amber! I went back to the assignment and tried again. Reading these poems over and over I can pick out messages from the authors and meanings of the poems a little more, but the paintings in these poems really helped me. I think that without them I couldn't imagine what the Authors were getting at. From the paintings I was able to pick out my own thoughts on the poem. The poem made more sense to me having seen the paintings and I was able to look at it from different angles. For me I know I was able to better understand the peoms, but also to understand the paintings. The first painting was understandable, but Before the Mirror could mean so many things. Picasso is a little crazy and a poem about his art could be confusing, but with the words there I was able to understand it all.

poem response by curtis frost

"about suffering they were never wrong" the xplanation of things that are not positive. meaning, it is easy to concentrate on things that are negative. when a good experience is had, it is often forgotten and replaced by a memory or another experience that of which is negative.

when speaking of old master, being those that have lived for a time or a while. with more life experience comes better understanding, especially in things experienced in pain. the poem going on to describe the actions of others going on while such other things are left to suffer explains life in simple terms. "life goes on" i think that is how the saying goes? no matter the experience of life good or bad it remains that another would contiue the mundane things, such as "opening a window or walking dully along." life stops for no man, and though it may seem calast to continue life amidst turmoil and suffering humans drive on only separated by the emotions that make us "WE."

Auden interpretation

The "human position" of suffering, according to Auden, is how death can run it's course. It's inevitable that we're all going to die, "even the dreadful martyrdom must run its course." Auden views death as a sad experience, but also understands that death is not a failed experience. Everyone accomplishes something or leaves an impression on someone, making life and death a success story. After a death, all one can do is carry on creating their own story.

Pictures and Poems

It is a lot easier for me to make an image in my mind while reading a story but when I read poetry sometimes it is hard for me to understand and even harder to make a mental image about what I think is going on in the poems. The pictures used helped me overcome that problem of mental imaging while reading poems. I would have not gotten out of the poems what I did without the pictures so I was pretty reliant upon the pictures.

Girl Before the Mirror

I really liked the poem by Updike, but i was really interested in Picasso's painting. Im curious as to which side you guys think is the girl, and which side is her reflection...
I interpreted it with the girl on the left side, with her two faces. Maybe they represent the "faces" she puts on for the outside world. What I though was even more interesting was the right side which is how the girl is really feeling under her social masks. The right figure is dark and reaching out, as if to be reaching for help or understanding.
The painting is us. If we reflect how many of us are just like the girl in the painting?! Maybe were not reaching for help or understanding, but maybe its comfort, friendship, or even acceptance.

Anyways, what to ya'll think?

Paintings

I really liked being able to look at the painings. When I was reading the poem I had a picture in my mind, and I liked looking at the painting and compairing those two pictures. I dont usually like to read poetry, Its harder for me to read than just a story, or a play, but it really helped me to be able to look at the pictures.

Sexuality

Daniel poses a good question when he asks what the correlation is between the sexual imagery of the poem Before the Mirror and Picasso's painting. I think there is a huge relationship and a good reason for the sexuality used in both the painting and the poem. I have actually studied a little bit about this painting, and one of the main motives behind it was in order to show a girl looking in a mirror and seeing herself in a mature, more sexual way. There is most definitely a reason why the colors on her face are the ones they are, and a reason for the "erotic balls bouncing back and forth" that show this girl going from innocence to adulthood by maturing sexually. Of course, there is a lot more to it than just that, but the sexuality used in both the painting and the poem are significant and help us see the relationship between the two.

She didn't go crazy over wallpaper, kill her husband, or even leave him-what she did was worse. The best part? This isn't a story. It's real.

So a common theme that I have noticed in these stories we have read is how women react to the circumstances in which they find themselves. Especially pertaining to their marriage. In Trifles, The Yellow Wallpaper, and A Doll's House, the women all found ways to retaliate the hurt they have felt. Well I went on a call a few weeks back that really tie well into what we have been reading about. I hope this doesn't disturb you...

We responded on a domestic violence, this really old couple that had been married for over 30 years. Well on this particular day, this old granny wife found out her husband was having an affair. Yes, i know, disgusting! We we got there and she was screaming and hollering about how their whole marriage had been based on a lie because of his unfaithfulness. So what did she do? How did this women deal with her life circumstance? She tried to claw his eyes out. We got there to find our patient, an 86 year old male, bleeding from and around his eyes. She even bursted blood vessels on the white part of his eyes! She used her finger nails. We were shocked when we found out that he didn't go blind with that type of trauma. 

Anyway, the things women do when they reach a breaking point!!!

a PiCtuRes WorTh a ThoUsAnD wOrDs..

I felt that by showing you the picture with the poem it helped you understand the poem. The statement is true "a picture is worth a thousand words." By looking at these pictures the words of the poets became more clear to me what the poet was saying. I usually have a hard time understanding poetry, but by looking at the pictures while reading the poems it gave me a better understanding of the peom. I feel that the mirror poem was a little more confusing but when I looked at the picaso painting it really helped me understand the depth of the poem. The Musee des Beaux Arts poem really went hand in hand with the painting. When looking at the painting you could feel what the peot was saying, the clouds the discription of the ship, and the sky, the picture says and showed it all. I think all poets should include a picture with their poems. I would read more poetry if they did, becuase it really did make more sense to me.

Everyone Suffers

The "human position" about suffering is merely an artsy way of saying that everyone suffers. We all have problems, we all have hardships and trial, but the world goes on. The ploughman has physical hardships, trying to make ends meet, doing his daily job. When Icarus falls into the sea, he is literally facing a failure in his life. Because the ploughman has his own things to worry about, he never looks up. Icarus goes unnoticed. His fall was a trial he had to deal with, just as the ploughman had work to deal with. Often times in life, we feel as if the world should stop because ours has. However, are pains often go without an expression of sympathy from anyone. Auden uses phrases like "the torturer's horse scratches its innocent behind on a tree" and "when the aged are reverently, passionately waiting for the miraculous birth, there always must me children who did not specially want it to happen" to exemplify the unfairness of our individual worlds. The torturers horse, not knowing his masters' disposition, had a scratch (a hardship) which went unseen. The children did not want another birth, and the old people did. There is opposition in all things. That is what Auden is saying. More often than not our sorrows go unspotted from the world because we all have our own. That is the "human position."  

Pictures with Poems

 The pictures were a huge help. I had to read through the poems a few times to even begin to understand what was going on. It wasn't until I connected the picture with the poem that they started to come together and make sense. Usually I am able to imagine stories in my mind, but with poetry it is more difficult.  The words used in poetry tend to be hard to understand. A person needs to be very intellectual to understand and apply poetry the way it is supposed to be used. I don't claim to know anything that is of value from reading either of the poems, but i do feel like having the pictures there gave me an added understanding. Another huge help was reading the introduction. Having a little background of the author made it easier to relate with them and figure out what message they were trying to convey.

We see what we want to see

I like poetry, I think it's quite intriguing although it is hard for me to understand sometimes. The first time I read "Musee des Beaux Arts", I just read through the poem. I didn't even see the picture by it. Well I did but i didn't realize it was tied to the poem. So at first read, I was a little lost. But because I didn't have a picture to look off of, I was able to imagine it myself. Which afterwards I realized I kind of preferred, because it was what I initially thought, not a picture to tell me what to imagine. So initially what I understood from that poem was, that sometimes people are going through the hardest trial(s) in their life, and need some assistance or just guidance, and no one even glances their way. "The ploughman may have heard the splash, the forsaken cry, but for him it was not an important failure;". To me that is saying, many people are too caught up in their own lives to worry about someone else's problems. They pretend like the person falling is not even there. Perhaps they are waiting for someone to reach out to them before they reach out to someone else. At the beginning of the poem it reads, "About suffering they were never wrong...they understood its human position;". Perhaps this means they know what it's like to suffer immensely. Or maybe suffering takes the form of a human when it is in full attack mode. Or maybe the suffering becomes a part of their human body and that's why they understand it so well.
Once I realized the poem was relating to the picture beside it, it helped me peice together some other things. Regarding the falling of Icarus and his legs going into the water. It made more sense, but I felt like perhaps I could've lived without the paintings.

Paintings

Having the paintings right in front of me while I read the 2 poems really helped.  It gave me something to visualize and it helped me understand what the poems were about.  I found that not only did it help me understand the poetry but it also helped with the understanding of the paintings.  In "Before the Mirror" when Updike says "She bounced between reflection and reality." it helped me see the painting as two different realities, the way the girl and the way she sees herself.

In "Musee des Beaux Arts" Auden says "the ploughman may Have heard the splash, the forsaken cry, But for him it was not an important failure, . . . " It made me look more closely at the painting, to pay attention at the details. Also, it helped me understand way no one in the painting cared why there was a drowning man. 

(I hope I made sense)

Why can't I understand POETRY??

I have just finished reading the Poems that were assigned to us in class and I am having bad flashbacks to high school. I took honors english classes all of high school up to my senior year and did great in them. I then decided to take AP English. The first day of class I sat down and started listening to the AP teacher. She began telling us of all the things we could expect out of the class that year and poetry was going to be a big part of it. She handed out our first assignment telling us to read through these poems and write the meaning of them down to turn in at the end of class. This packet was 20 pages long, FULL of poems! I started reading the first poem, then the second, the third, and I couldn't tell you what one word of those poems meant! I started looking all around the class and everyone else seemed to understand just fine. They had even begun to write their summaries. Apparently my teacher saw me looking around the classroom and back to my sheet of poems and the look of horror on my face. She came over to my desk, knelt in front of me, grabbed my hands, and whispered, "this assignment is due at the end of class, but I'll give you until tomorrow to finish." ARE YOU KIDDING ME?!?! I felt so stupid. I kindly thanked her and waited for the bell to ring, while pretending to read through those poems. As soon as class was over I ran down the hall to my mom's office (she worked at the school as the Principal's secretary) and asked her to tell me what the poems meant. She, being an amazing writer and English major, couldn't define them either. So I told her of my troubles and told her I wouldn't be returning to class the next day. Let's just say I finished the year in regular English, watching the movie "The Princess Bride". Now this is a long story of my struggles with poetry, but to this day I have the hardest time understanding it. I read and re-read it, but to no avail. It might be the way the lines are written that throw me off. Also most poems aren't the Mother Goose type poems, or haiku's (I'm great at those). It is my weakness!! So I'm throwing this story and life lesson of mine out there to you all with the hope that you can help me get through some poetry this semester. Any suggestions?

Poetry

Poetry is elusive. It plays cloak and dagger games letting you believe you know something only to twist you around in the next line.
In "Musee des Beaux Arts" by W. H. Auden. He plays at the fact that all of us with our busy lives miss out on all the amazing wonders that surround us in are day lives and at the pains that we must bare by ourselves. Because everyone else is to busy with out own tasks. Like the plowman in the painting Landscape with the fall of Icarus. Yet there is more than just that runs and hides.
Also In "Before the Mirror" by John Updike. He taunts the younger generation of days gone by and refreshes memories for the people of his time by remembering a time when a painting said "Enter here and abandon perconception." Like it bets you to continue on with an open mind to all that will come. Yet he seems to morn the lose of days past and how this age old painting mocks the lines that time has draw upon his face and how it still keeps its youth after all this time.
Poetry is elusive and can never give me a clean answer or a simple truth it seems. That is why I dislike it.